…because the existing mountain of gun control laws are just enforced so vigorously.
The man just doesn’t understand the beauty of the unspoken thought.
From WISH:
…in November, Ballard got inspiration from, of all places, a football star that shot himself in the leg. Giant Plaxico Burress is fighting 3 years in prison, not for the shooting, but for the weapon. Even if Burress had never fired, New York has mandatory jail time for carrying a gun that’s not registered with the city. Ballard thinks what works there might also work in Indy.
“I wonder about our gun laws. Should we be harsher with our gun laws,” said Ballard.
Ballard’s idea is clearly still in its earliest stages. He told 24-Hour News 8 his hopes before he even mentioned them to his own staff or public safety director. He revealed it, unexpectedly, during an otherwise routine interview about his first year in office.
“I’d like to look at gun laws, frankly. Penalties for illegal guns,” said Ballard.
Ballard said he knows many will oppose the idea, and he wants to make clear what kind of guns he’d target.
“I have no problem with second amendment legal guns. No problem what so ever on that. It’s the illegal guns that are concerning,” said Ballard.
Talk about shooting a hole in your head and enraging (what’s left of) your base.
And instead of letting this die over the holidays and working with our Republicn friends to help our Mayor understand his mistake, you lambaste him and irritate our GOP base, all while giving Comfort to the enemy.
Thanks, Jennifer Wagner! …er, I mean Scott! What a great Republican friend you are!
Without having heard the entire quote or what context, I can only presume that Ballard meant enforcement of current laws as they relate to said illegal guns?
No, Ballard has said he wants Indy’s gun control laws to reflect those of New York city.
I don’t doubt his second amendment cred, but he’s got a lot of explaining to do. And you know what, we’re willing to hold our own elected officials to the fire. Or do you forget so easily “z4ever” that we also took on the Governor and his choice for AG candidate. We’re not willing to turn a blind eye to something just because that person may be a member of our own party. That’s what got us into trouble w/Congress now isn’t it?
I liked Greg Ballard (and gave money to his campaign) when nobody thought he had a chance. I am not going to snow over, whitewash, or ignore what he said. And the context of what he said is probably more fully visible in the video of his remarks that is available on the WISHTV website, if you find the quotes in the article to be insufficient.
z4ever, if you’re so worried that Greg Ballard hasn’t had a chance to understand his mistake, why don’t you ask him why his staff won’t return calls to key second amendment advocates and leaders around the state who continue to call his office, only to get a deer in the headlights response from some low level intern. His staff is rudderless and they’re hiding under the desk.
Robert Vane, the mayors communications director, has been letting the calls go to voice mail. I gave them my call back numbers…
z4ever, given how Hoosiers love to own guns, this is stupider that trying to sell a low milage senate seat that nobody has used in a year, to even bring up the subject.
Here is how this normally plays out… If Ballard goes down this road, every and any player in republican politics will get thier name and number plaster over the dozens of internet gunsites.In order to help encourage the mayor to see the error of his ways. Gun owner are unique in that they want a scorched earth policy and salt thrown into the ground. They have zero forgivness… Even more so if somebody was a friend. This is not just some idea or principal, these people are vested for thousands of dollars. The mayors only way out is to bring them a head on a platter.
Zfever, do you seriously think Scott Fluhr single handedly irritated the base? Greg Ballard irritated the base on WISH TV yesterday in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers. Shella is probably pissed after seeing you give Scott the credit for this. Don’t kill Scott the mailman for delivering old news. The switchboards lit up in Ballard’s office right after the WISH story and long before Scott posted anything about it here. You need to crawl out from under the desk and answer the telephone.
I hope the mayor simply blurted out an unfinished thought. I heard the original broadcast but was only partially listening as I was in another room. I though I’d misheard, but no.
As to the New York case, I’m not aware the player was otherwise a criminal, which leaves me angry and bitter (;-). There are thousands of real criminals who’ll ditch a gun for another criminal to pick up and carry after they shoot someone with it. Yet an otherwise (far as I know) honest citizen now faces 3 years in jail for this.
What’s needed are much harsher sentences for those you commit a crime with a gun, not those who fear their own safety because of those criminals who ought to be in prison already.
Gun control and telling everybody about hanging out with Bill Clinton is what killed off Helmke’s career. Gun control is the fastest way to kill off a Republican’s career.
It’s a matter of trust, people don’t trust gun banners. Niccolo Machiavelli warns against this course of action in his classic, “The Prince”. He said “That it makes the leader look weak.” “then the people will no longer trust the leader” Weak is how the respounce, is making the mayor look, now.
The attitude reflected in Z4ever’s post is what is driving some out of the Republican party. We, the GOP, must STOP drinking the Kool-Aid. Ignorning problems will not make them go away. We must address them head on; otherwise, we’ll be no better than Democrats.
I find the reaction to z4ever very interesting. I don’t think he was calling for ignoring the issue. In fact he was suggesting working through the Republican Party to get Ballard to reconsider his position. I agree that it would be best if the Republicans on the City/County Council would go to him and tell him those ideas are dead on arrival because the ideas are bankrupt.
I think z4ever’s point (though not eloquently made) is that this is a discussion that should not be a public flame war, but rather a behind-the-scenes education project.
I don’t completely agree or disagree with z4ever on this. On one hand, you don’t want to create a split in the party here. On the other hand, you want to make sure that everyone understands that these are bad ideas and should not be accepted.
I’m a bit confused here–are we sure that quote was accurate or in the right context? I have spent a decent amount of time around Greg, and He doesn’t strike me as the type to do what he’s being made out as…Are we sure he didn’t mean harsher gun laws for those who are breaking the law with weapons or those who possess them illegally?
So let me get this straight, Joel and zfever. You are encouraging us to work within the party to show Mayor Ballard the error of his ways, yet its ok for Mayor Ballard to get on one of the largest television stations in the state and propose a policy that is very clearly antithetical to those of us who form the base of the party.
Shouldn’t you be admonsihing Mayor Ballard about working with the party instead of lecturing us peons who have not pissed on the party base in front of a television as he has?
All I am saying that it will be more effective over the long term for this not to be a flame war. Think of it this way: if I call you a bone-headed idiot, how will you respond to me? How about if I publicly crucify you? Now how will you respond to me if I pull you into a quiet office and say, “Hey, I know you want to address violent crime, but various gun control laws have no correlation to violent crime rates” and show you the evidence?
The other concern that I have is the fact that dealing with this publicly and loudly is that we create discontent within the party before there is a reason to do so. Ballard has not proposed anything yet. In the video, it is clear that it would be the 2010 General Assembly session before he would. Overreacting right now does more to hamstring Ballard in areas that we probably agree with him, and doesn’t help educate him on the issue.
Regarding your suggestion for “admonishing” Mayor Ballard: First, I would not assume to admonish him. I might provide him some feedback on the issue. Second, you really should take a breath and watch the video (again?). He is not lecturing. He is not treating “us” as peons. What he is doing is thinking out loud about how to address the violent crime issue in Indianapolis.
One other thought. I’m not sure that people have really paid attention to what Ballard was suggesting. He was not suggesting any additional gun control. What he was suggesting was increasing the penalties for the existing limitations. The specific situation being discussed was that Plaxico Burress shot himself with an unregistered weapon–something that would be illegal here in Indianapolis today. Ballard was suggesting increasing the penalties of this already illegal behavior.
In other words, Ballard is not calling for MORE gun control laws, but rather harsher penalties for the existing gun control laws.
This is not an argument for or against the ideas put forward by Ballard, but an effort to make sure the discussion is on what he said rather than a straw man.
Joel, as you suggested, well known leaders in the pro-gun movement tried on the first day to call Ballard’s policy advisors “quietly” as you suggest, but they STILL have not returned their repeated phone calls.
Ballard and his staff needs to respond to these second amendment leaders immediately if they want to clear this up.
By the way, the penalty for carrying without a permit in Indiana is a class A misdemeanor (up to 1 year in jail and fine of $5,000).
Why does Ballard and his staff need to respond “immediately”? As he pointed out in his interview, there is nothing on the table. NOTHING. Nothing would be proposed for at least a year. There is no immediacy to this issue other than people doing a knee-jerk reaction.
Joel, he needs to explain himself. He did not do so in the WISH interview and he has not done so since. Hiding under the table while your supporters are pounding on the door wanting to know what the hell you were talking about is not showing leadership.
We might as well have reelected Bart if that’s what we’re going to get.
If you don’t understand the necessity of a timely response from Ballard to second amendment leaders on this matter, then we’re wasting our time here.
Hold on guys. You honestly think that EVEN IF Ballard proposes making carrying a weapon without a permit a class C Felony that he is no better than the dishonest governing, bloated budget, blank page budget governor?
Why is this ONE issue mean Ballard is worthless?
Define timely?
Actually, Nathan, leadership is not going out with your hat in hand every time someone questions something you say to meekly explain yourself. That is allowing yourself to be bullied. And bullying is exactly what this looks and sounds like to me.
By the way, Ballard is scheduled to be on the Garrison program Tuesday on WIBC. I haven’t heard what time slot he will be in. Garrison is aware of this issue and has already told him that he will be bringing it up.
Here’s the cycle.
1. Ballard carelessly blunders into a pile of stink.
2. Ballard’s terribly frustrated staff explain to him what that stinking stuff is on his shoe.
3. Ballard crawls under desk.
4. Ballard’s staff calls Garrison to have him coax the Mayor out from under the desk and to help the Mayor get the mess off his shoe.
5. Garrison will characteristically throw Ballard some softballs and help him back out of this sticky mess.
6. In the near future, Ballard will talk more carefully about guns and no effort will be made to lobby for legislation.
7. After January, Ballard will never voluntarily talk about gun control legislation again.
8. By 2009, this will be remembered as a momentary demonstration of Ballard’s lack of appreciation for the consequences of speaking about poorly though out ideas.
Let’s go more generic with the discussion: if you had 5 minutes with Ballard, what would you suggest for the problem that he is trying to figure out–reduce violent crime in Indianapolis?
We can’t even get 5 minutes with Greg Ballard’s staff to do just that, much less with the Mayor. They won’t even return our calls. So answering such a hypothetical from you is a waste of time, unless you are planning to run for Mayor.
Correct. There can be no dialogue if the Mayor’s staff chooses not to participate. We don’t contribute money to him like the big law firms do, so that leaves us with no calls returned. I bet he returns calls from Ice Miller & Associates.
So is there a point to whining about it?
You can have 5 minutes on this blog to do it. How about using our energy to be productive rather than simply being malcontents.
As best as I can tell, his giving of 5 minutes would be a waste of his time.
Dan, Ballard received little, if any money from Ice Miller or any of the “big law firms”. The only way he is getting big money is if they are paying taxes.
I don’t understand this reaction to Ballard.
A waste of time to at least have staff return the calls of leaders of second amendment orgnaizations? Isn’t that the basic function of a politician’s office? Are you seriously telling me that it is a waste of time for them to return calls from voters who have concerns? Even Bart Peterson’s staff would return calls.
I am saying that it would be a waste of time because the “leaders” would not have anything useful to tell Ballard.
The basic function of a Mayor is to administer the city’s government to which he was elected.
Yes, he should ultimately talk to all constituencies. But the attitude I am getting here is quite demanding and disrespectful. It fails to give the mayor any benefit of the doubt. It says “if you don’t talk to me right now, I’m writing your name down on my bad list!” If you saw this going on in most any other area you would call it juvenile. The attitude is that this particular constituency deserves the highest priority over any other constituency (mind, during a holiday period) even though it is an issue that is more than a year away from anything being done.
Can you at least be a bit patient? Can you give him the time to assess the reaction that he has already received? Can you let him formulate more of his ideas before we crucify him?
A little after 1400 EST today, the Mayor’s staff finally began to return calls. It looks like the full court press on the switchboards worked. Thanks to all who kept calling. Though we are disappointed that it took them so long to respond, we now have something to work with to take this to the next phase.
I heard Ballard on WISH TV and he suggested what works in NYC should work here. That would mean a registration system for firearms. Not something we want or the City can afford a new registration system, and it do little to reduce crime. Maybe it was an ill thought out idea, but the fact that he said it on TV makes one wonder what he is thinking about and want to know more.
For instance, if you are traveling through a NY airport and have a firearm properly checked in baggage per TSA regulations and get delayed in NY and have to re-check your baggage, you can get arrested for having an un-registered (in NY) firearm. As it is, the new airport no longer allows a person with a carry permit to carry anywhere on airport property. The pressure is on to disarm law abiding citizens by various groups and the stand against conceal carry by the next president has law abiding gun owners a bit touchy. So it would behoove Ballard to clarify his thoughts.
Trevor, our grassroots siege for the last two days on Ballard’s switchboard may have moved him all the way through your 8 point cycle. Garrison’s clean up job will be a wasted exercise. Clean up your casings and lets go to the house.
The Mayor’s claim now that he’s only against felons having guns is not true. I have a second amendment case I just filed where the police searched my client’s home by mistake and took his guns. My client is not a felon. Now the City of Indianapolis refuses to return his guns unless he agrees to fill out a form and be fingerprinted, which fingerprints then go into a national database.
I thought all along that some half way intelligent attorney at City Legal would figure out that the City cannot by adopting an administrative “policy” abrogate the rights of a gunowner and tell the police to simply return the man’s guns. The policy was not even something the City County Council ever voted on. Alas, my hope for common sense from the City has not yet borne fruit.
The Mayor has unfortunately hired some horribly anti-gun people into his administration.
The most egregious example of an anti-gunner is Alex Will of Corporation Counsel who openly refuses to release the City’s firearm return policy even pursuant to an Open Records request. Will further refuses to allow an attorney to receive a client’s firearm held in the City’s custody, even though the attorney is the client’s full legal agent. Under an absolutely un-American legal interpretation, Will says that because the law does not explicitly say that an attorney can receive client property, an attorney has no such permission. Evidently, the logical concept of ‘a fortiori’ has not penetrated the blunt and coarse minds of this administration.
We must always guard against the nascent tyranny that lurks within this positive manner of legal interpretation. Such a view sets the law as a set of permissions and boundaries limiting the conduct of the citizenry. This view is completely contrary to the American view which holds the the law to be a set of restraints on the government, limiting the people only narrowly and explicitly.
People of Will’s ilk are imperious, unaccountable and are taking this country to a terrifying place.
If the Mayor wants to prove to gun owners that they shouldn’t immediately abandon his administration, the present firing of Alex Will, with a corresponding public statement of Will’s incompatibility with the aims of the Ballard Administration, would show gun owners that Ballard is attempting to seek atonement for some rather serious sins.
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