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	<title>Comments on: Something Smells Awfully Fishy</title>
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	<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/</link>
	<description>HoosierAccess.com</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Josh Gillespie</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Gillespie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Commenting has been quite lively on this post and I'm quite grateful.  But I think we're starting to beat a dead horse here, so I'm closing the comments on this particular post.  Time to move on people, nothing more to see here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commenting has been quite lively on this post and I&#8217;m quite grateful.  But I think we&#8217;re starting to beat a dead horse here, so I&#8217;m closing the comments on this particular post.  Time to move on people, nothing more to see here.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>What can I say? I think comparing supporters of either Dan Burton--or John McGoff--to a political organization that orchestrated the industrial mass murder of six million people (and started a war that killed probably ten times again as many) is a bit much.

I'm glad you enjoyed my citation from Wikipedia, and by all means feel free to actually find a way of reaching your point without having to resort to such asinine comparisons and analogies.

There are a wide variety of better ones available if you want to more accurately characterize Dan Burton's partisans.

You're a big boy; I am sure that you can think of a few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What can I say? I think comparing supporters of either Dan Burton&#8211;or John McGoff&#8211;to a political organization that orchestrated the industrial mass murder of six million people (and started a war that killed probably ten times again as many) is a bit much.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you enjoyed my citation from Wikipedia, and by all means feel free to actually find a way of reaching your point without having to resort to such asinine comparisons and analogies.</p>
<p>There are a wide variety of better ones available if you want to more accurately characterize Dan Burton&#8217;s partisans.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re a big boy; I am sure that you can think of a few.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Hailstone</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Hailstone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-202</guid>
		<description>I never thought I'd see the day when Godwin's Law is invoked on a blog!

Nice one, Mr. Fluhr!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never thought I&#8217;d see the day when Godwin&#8217;s Law is invoked on a blog!</p>
<p>Nice one, Mr. Fluhr!</p>
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		<title>By: The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the lecture, Scott but I'm a big boy.

The analogy of a party apparatus/leadership forcing members to march in lockstep is an apt one, and the best description of such is to use the Nazi party. Sorry if you don't care for one, but it happens to be a good analogy to use.

BTW, Wiki isn't exactly the most credible source to use for much of anything, especially if it's your entire statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the lecture, Scott but I&#8217;m a big boy.</p>
<p>The analogy of a party apparatus/leadership forcing members to march in lockstep is an apt one, and the best description of such is to use the Nazi party. Sorry if you don&#8217;t care for one, but it happens to be a good analogy to use.</p>
<p>BTW, Wiki isn&#8217;t exactly the most credible source to use for much of anything, especially if it&#8217;s your entire statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 11:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-199</guid>
		<description>"The thing that interests me is this entire thing about forcing everyone to toe the party line here. Are you guys members of the Nazi party or something?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

"There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically 'lost' whatever debate was in progress."

"In 2007, The Economist declared that 'A good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument.'"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The thing that interests me is this entire thing about forcing everyone to toe the party line here. Are you guys members of the Nazi party or something?&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law</a></p>
<p>&#8220;As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically &#8216;lost&#8217; whatever debate was in progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;In 2007, The Economist declared that &#8216;A good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-198</guid>
		<description>O.K., so you got me on one. I was having brain cramps and wrote about McGoff living in Hamilton County when I know better. So sue me (try calling Gary Welsh).

The thing that interests me is this entire thing about forcing everyone to toe the party line here. Are you guys members of the Nazi party or something? Doing what your leaders tell you without thinking for yourself? You do know that primary challenges are pretty normal, and healthy for our system as well, right?

That's the only reason I can come up with for this rash of attacks against McGoff, simply because he his challenging the status quo, not just "Cadillac Dan".

"DrVanNostrand" I'm not sure what part of Dr. McGoff's site you are reading, because there's a big section entitled "issues" that list, in detail, what his issues and plans for the 5th are.

Press releases questioning his votes to raise his pay, highlighting our leasing for him a Cadillac, questioning the amount of money he's given his daughter and brother? You betcha, and you'd be doing the same if you were running against him. No different than our questioning the same things in regards to Julia.

The real question to me is that if "Cadillac Dan" is so concerned about his lifetime appointment to Congress, why won't he come out and fight for himself? He does his typical shenanigans of refusing to mention his opponent by name, won't discuss or debate him.

Yet he sends his supporters out to smear McGoff at every opportunity.

Why won't "Cadillac Dan" fight his own battles? Too rusty after sitting on his tush for twenty years? Is he afraid to campaign? Is he insulted that anyone dare question his right to "his" seat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.K., so you got me on one. I was having brain cramps and wrote about McGoff living in Hamilton County when I know better. So sue me (try calling Gary Welsh).</p>
<p>The thing that interests me is this entire thing about forcing everyone to toe the party line here. Are you guys members of the Nazi party or something? Doing what your leaders tell you without thinking for yourself? You do know that primary challenges are pretty normal, and healthy for our system as well, right?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the only reason I can come up with for this rash of attacks against McGoff, simply because he his challenging the status quo, not just &#8220;Cadillac Dan&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;DrVanNostrand&#8221; I&#8217;m not sure what part of Dr. McGoff&#8217;s site you are reading, because there&#8217;s a big section entitled &#8220;issues&#8221; that list, in detail, what his issues and plans for the 5th are.</p>
<p>Press releases questioning his votes to raise his pay, highlighting our leasing for him a Cadillac, questioning the amount of money he&#8217;s given his daughter and brother? You betcha, and you&#8217;d be doing the same if you were running against him. No different than our questioning the same things in regards to Julia.</p>
<p>The real question to me is that if &#8220;Cadillac Dan&#8221; is so concerned about his lifetime appointment to Congress, why won&#8217;t he come out and fight for himself? He does his typical shenanigans of refusing to mention his opponent by name, won&#8217;t discuss or debate him.</p>
<p>Yet he sends his supporters out to smear McGoff at every opportunity.</p>
<p>Why won&#8217;t &#8220;Cadillac Dan&#8221; fight his own battles? Too rusty after sitting on his tush for twenty years? Is he afraid to campaign? Is he insulted that anyone dare question his right to &#8220;his&#8221; seat?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-196</guid>
		<description>To preface, I'm not from the 5th District and I don't have an attachment to either candidate.

I think, first of all, that people get comfortable in their jobs. Sometimes, they get too comfortable. Dan Burton needed a swift kick in the rear. The good news (such as it can be seen) is that John McGoff has likely given him one, and Burton'll represent the 5th District better going forward because of it.

I also think that Indiana benefits a lot from having members of its Congressional delegation who are stalwart conservatives and have considerable seniority when it comes to the distribution of committee assignments. Burton fits the bill on both counts. McGoff certainly won't have the latter going for him, and I've seen very little to indicate to me that he has the former going for him either.

There's nothing wrong with the primary process; the Republican Party should never oppose a vigorous discussion and debate of ideas. But a divisive, negative, and smear-driven primary process only benefits the Democrats.

The uglier this turns, the more it benefits them.

There is a reason that John McGoff's press releases are the only ones that are ever touted or posted about over at Taking Down Words.

I don't think that McGoff is going to unseat Burton. Dan Burton is not Bob Garton, and incumbent Republicans pretty much never lose primary challenges when those challenges are waged from the center and not from the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To preface, I&#8217;m not from the 5th District and I don&#8217;t have an attachment to either candidate.</p>
<p>I think, first of all, that people get comfortable in their jobs. Sometimes, they get too comfortable. Dan Burton needed a swift kick in the rear. The good news (such as it can be seen) is that John McGoff has likely given him one, and Burton&#8217;ll represent the 5th District better going forward because of it.</p>
<p>I also think that Indiana benefits a lot from having members of its Congressional delegation who are stalwart conservatives and have considerable seniority when it comes to the distribution of committee assignments. Burton fits the bill on both counts. McGoff certainly won&#8217;t have the latter going for him, and I&#8217;ve seen very little to indicate to me that he has the former going for him either.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with the primary process; the Republican Party should never oppose a vigorous discussion and debate of ideas. But a divisive, negative, and smear-driven primary process only benefits the Democrats.</p>
<p>The uglier this turns, the more it benefits them.</p>
<p>There is a reason that John McGoff&#8217;s press releases are the only ones that are ever touted or posted about over at Taking Down Words.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that McGoff is going to unseat Burton. Dan Burton is not Bob Garton, and incumbent Republicans pretty much never lose primary challenges when those challenges are waged from the center and not from the right.</p>
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		<title>By: DrVanNostrand</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>DrVanNostrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-193</guid>
		<description>Maybe our attitude is such because the McGoff supporters are so uninformed.

McGoff was, in fact, a candidate at the convention.  His home county is Marion, not Hamilton, unless there is no residency requirement for the Marion County Coroner.  He lost miserably after spending a lot of his own money trying to garner support.  And he left himself $60,000 in debt.  Perhaps that's why he's having such a difficult time raising money...

Now his excuse for losing so badly is that Rokita cheated?

As for smearing someone, I've yet to see McGoff speak positively about his vision for the 5th district.  Instead, he's spent the entire time talking about Dan Burton.  I went to his website today to make sure, and the only press releases he has are attacks against Mr. Burton and (in one case) his family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe our attitude is such because the McGoff supporters are so uninformed.</p>
<p>McGoff was, in fact, a candidate at the convention.  His home county is Marion, not Hamilton, unless there is no residency requirement for the Marion County Coroner.  He lost miserably after spending a lot of his own money trying to garner support.  And he left himself $60,000 in debt.  Perhaps that&#8217;s why he&#8217;s having such a difficult time raising money&#8230;</p>
<p>Now his excuse for losing so badly is that Rokita cheated?</p>
<p>As for smearing someone, I&#8217;ve yet to see McGoff speak positively about his vision for the 5th district.  Instead, he&#8217;s spent the entire time talking about Dan Burton.  I went to his website today to make sure, and the only press releases he has are attacks against Mr. Burton and (in one case) his family.</p>
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		<title>By: The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>The Scribe (Jacob Perry)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Wow, the class (a.k.a. Burton supporters) sure comes out of the closet in times like these. Just like the group of unshaven college kids who stood next to porta-johns with cheezy hand-made signs to smear McGoff's record. For "Cadillac Dan" to resort to these types of tactics tells me a great deal about his level of concern.

For the record, Dr. McGoff was nothing more than a pre-convention candidate for Secretary of State, which is a little different then how he's portrayed in the above comment. Also, for the record I was at the convention that day when Rokita was "chosen" and things did certainly smell a little fishy.

Also, as I recall (and I could be wrong) Hamilton county that day went for current State Senator Mike Delph. But I'm operating purely from memory over five years later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, the class (a.k.a. Burton supporters) sure comes out of the closet in times like these. Just like the group of unshaven college kids who stood next to porta-johns with cheezy hand-made signs to smear McGoff&#8217;s record. For &#8220;Cadillac Dan&#8221; to resort to these types of tactics tells me a great deal about his level of concern.</p>
<p>For the record, Dr. McGoff was nothing more than a pre-convention candidate for Secretary of State, which is a little different then how he&#8217;s portrayed in the above comment. Also, for the record I was at the convention that day when Rokita was &#8220;chosen&#8221; and things did certainly smell a little fishy.</p>
<p>Also, as I recall (and I could be wrong) Hamilton county that day went for current State Senator Mike Delph. But I&#8217;m operating purely from memory over five years later.</p>
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		<title>By: DrVanNostrand</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>DrVanNostrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2007/08/30/something-smells-awfully-fishy/#comment-191</guid>
		<description>I disagree with Winston.  McGoff doesn't have any future in the Republican party.  When he ran for SOS in 2002, he couldn't even win his own county.  Now that he's running for Congress, he's managed to raise little money and spend most of it.  He already is $60,000 in the hole from that embarrassing SOS race (all the while claiming to be fiscally conservative).

And I don't think Hoosier Access should give him quarter.  Hoosier Access is about supporting conservative candidates, not political hacks in search of an office to run for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with Winston.  McGoff doesn&#8217;t have any future in the Republican party.  When he ran for SOS in 2002, he couldn&#8217;t even win his own county.  Now that he&#8217;s running for Congress, he&#8217;s managed to raise little money and spend most of it.  He already is $60,000 in the hole from that embarrassing SOS race (all the while claiming to be fiscally conservative).</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think Hoosier Access should give him quarter.  Hoosier Access is about supporting conservative candidates, not political hacks in search of an office to run for.</p>
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