As a human being, an American, a Hoosier, a Christian, and gay, I have no need to be ashamed, nor am I. As a Republican, however, I am ashamed of the deep intolerance with which our Party has become associated through its relatively recent infection by big-government get-in-your-life zealots, an infection from which we are recently, thankfully, hopefully beginning to emerge in Indiana and nationally, however fitfully. If we could take a pill and all be rid of THAT, now that would be a pill worth taking.

I was a little surprised that you provided the Exodus website. I have known Chris for several years and he has never given me the impression that he struggles with “unwanted” same-sex attractions or that he is looking for a way out.

He is well adjusted, successful, thoughtful, and in a committed relationship.

He values individual rights and responsibilities, and he values religious freedom.

There are Christians who see homosexuality as sin and there are Christians that do not. It sure does not seem like it is government’s responsibility (nor do they have the expertise) to referree a theology debate. If government has a role, it is to make sure both Christians have the freedom to their religion and to make sure all citizens have the same rights and responsibilities.

Perhaps you should check out: www.jesusmcc.org or www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com

Brian, you are both correct in this statement, and guilty of it.

Some have perverted Christianity to further their own ends, but religion isn’t the problem: false ideas about what is good and what is bad is where the problem is.

Chris, I’m not going to keep debating you because I don’t think we’re going to agree, but let me recommend this resource to you: http://exodus.to/help/?option=com_content&task=view&id=327&Itemid=147

I also drive the point home: “Conservative Dad” used a veil of anonymity to spread a rumor subsequently proved baseless. Conservative Dad, as I have asked on other blogs of anonymous posters who attack from the shadows: Do you remain anonymous because you fear your name discredits your views or because your views discredit your name?

Stalin and Mao did no better with an atheistic philosophy, but they created their own religions in personality cults. It is telling that Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s propaganda minister, described precisely in advance of their rise how they would create a religion and what effect this would have on the popular mind. The terrain in Germany was fertile, for as described in 1917 by the departing U.S. Ambassador James W. Gerard, the church in Germany even under the Kaiser reinforced both the rule of monarchy and the public antipathy towards the Jewish. The same was true under the rule of the Czars. Though the monarchies were overthrown, the popular church-promoted antipathy towards Jews remained so strong as to fuel the population’s participation in their massacre. As one latter day philosopher put it: “With or without religion, good people will do good. For good people to do evil, that takes religion.”

The ambassador described a cultural difference between the German culture and that of the already diverse America, a difference in emphasis between the imposition of government and the freedom of the individual, and a resistance change. It is interesting that the Ambassador in 1917 felt that the only hope for Germany would be its embrace of liberal values in the classic sense over the conservative mindset which gripped the Germans. He felt it would take total defeat before such values prevailed. Little did he know of the massacre of the Jews and World War which would follow before German conservatism would finally find its defeat. Incidentally, the onerous state-sponsored welfare programs which stifled competition and inflicted costs existed even in the Kaiser’s day.

Your attempt to define same sex couples out of the institution of marriage based on tradition is no different from the attempt to define racially mixed couples out or religiously mixed couples out. It is group thought prevailing over individual civic and religious freedom and conscience, inflicting injustice and inequality. It is un-American. It is un-Christian.

It is not the role of the government to convince men of any religious faith, but it is the role of government to enforce the general principles of morality, informed by Judeo-Christian principles, that are necessary to the well being of society. Marriage is one of those principles that the government needs to protect.

Marriage, by it’s very nature, is exclusive of many things. Just as two men do not make up a marriage, neither should two minors, or a mother and son, or a father and daughter, or a man and two women make up marriage. The definition of marriage is applied equally to all. That is the equal justice mandated by the state and federal constitutions.

As the editor of Indiana’s only LGBT blog that Chris has contributed to, I can easily dismiss Conservative Dad as one of those folks who knows they have nothing to argue with. Instead, they throw out a ‘rumor’ they’ve made up themselves in a desperate attempt to discredit the other person. As the person you’re ‘rumoring’ about, allow me to spell it out clearly enough for a wingnut to understand. You aren’t telling the truth.

Chris was a great contributor to bilerico.com. With 63 contributors over the life of the blog (and 50 currently active and blogging), we have contributors join and leave with regularity. As Chris is Republican to his core and I trend Democratic, I always enjoyed arguing with him on the site as we debated issues back and forth. I never had to throw out baseless accusations though to win my points against him. It’s a shame you’ve had to resort to such tactics in a desperate attempt to obfuscate your own bigotry against gays and lesbians.

Chris there are other statements from or about Lincoln and faith. For example, he stated this after receiving a gift of a Bible from a group of African-Americans from Baltimore:

“In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.” [Sept. 9, 1864]

Then there is this from a friend of Lincoln’s and a reporter named Brooks.

Mr. Noah Brooks, sometime after that, longtime friend and newspaper correspondent, said, “I have had many conversations with Mr. Lincoln, which were more or less of a religious character, and while I never tried to draw anything like a statement of his views from him, yet he freely expressed himself to me as having a hope of blessed immortality through Jesus Christ.” Lincoln said that he had found the peace that had eluded him all of his life. “Therefore, being justified by faith” he now had peace with God. When a lady connected with the work of the Christian Commission later came to see him, he said: “I had lived until my boy Willie died without realizing fully these things [about the Gospel]. It showed me my weakness as I had never felt it before, and if I can take what you have stated [as to what a Christian is] as a test, I think I can safely say that I know something of that change of which you speak;

There is also a letter from Mrs. Lincoln talking about how the president’s faith deepened toward the end of his life, that claims that he was going to make a bold public profession of his faith but he was shot before this happened. Lincoln’s pastor and family friend Dr. Francis Vinton, rector of Trinity Church made similar predictions of a public pronouncement.

He reportedly observed: “From that day there began a change in Lincoln that even his wife Mary noticed. His religious views began to dramatically change. There is a remarkable letter that comes to us from an Illinois clergyman who talked to Lincoln after this time. He said this to Mr. Lincoln (Again, I commend him for his boldness): “Mr. President, do you love Jesus?” After a long pause, Mr. Lincoln solemnly replied: “When I left Springfield I asked the people to pray for me. I was not a Christian. When I buried my son, the severest trial of my life, I was not a Christian. But when I went to Gettysburg and saw the graves of thousands of our soldiers, I then and there consecrated myself to Christ. Yes, I do love Jesus.”

Since you already have labeled me in your mind by now as a religious bigot, I’ll say this to you . . At this time of Christmas, Chris, the question for you is do you love Christ as Lincoln seemed to come to? If not, perhaps you should take this time of Holiday celebration to read the new testament and pray about who Jesus was and if this man can change your life and meet your needs of your heart in ways no other man ever will.

Merry Christmas, Chris!