Dissent is one thing, outright disrespect is another.

Dissent is writing “Gov. Daniels” this or “President Bush” that on a blog or in a letter to the editor or whatnot. We are all free to dissent. It’s one thing that separates us from Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, etc.

This, on the other hand, is an overt act of disrespect towards our great country.

By the way, Michael, one possibility of your exchange at the restaurant saddens me.

I don’t know what else you heard, but on the face of it, I wonder if what they were discussing was what countries might be better for a gay couple to live in. All are places where same sex couples either have freedom to marry or have access to civil union. Could they have been discussing what countries are better places from the perspective of gays either wondering how we might improve or where life for them might be better?

I wonder if it is possible that this passing conversation, into which you interjected yourself, you may soon forget, but they may remember the rest of their lives. If they did not understand that you did not know of what they were speaking, they may believe that a Hoosier so despised them as to tell them to leave. Some have gotten that message subtly. You may have inadvertently delivered it to them in a manner that drove straight and deeply into their hearts.

They may have taken you very seriously in a message that I hope you would never intend to deliver. I wish I could find them, discuss it, and if that were the case, tell them you were speaking from the perspective not of a hater, but of a Patriot wounded at hearing other countries called better. I am deeply saddened that two human beings, whether native Hoosiers or otherwise, may believe differently, and think the same of us all.

I’ve never heard of a (citizen) kid not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance who wasn’t just trying to get attention. Few kids — even high-scrool kids — really understand anything about history anymore, so they don’t get that millions of people have died for the right to fly that flag. 10 to 1 there’s no principled objection here — the kid just decided to make a scene.

Yeah, sure, kid, this is the worst country in the world.

Except for all the rest.

Wow - a lot of hyperbole in this post…

I doubt immigrants are swimming “90 miles in shark infested waters” to stand up in high school and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Now, I may be off the mark, but I think they have higher priorities than reciting a few words that most kids don’t take seriously to start with - like, say, economic improvement, free speech, the right to assemble peacefully, etc.

Voting and jury duty are definitely civic duties. Standing for the Pledge? Not so much. The first two helps American society at large; who even knows if someone doesn’t stand for the Pledge of Allegiance in a small high school in Indiana? As the courts have already decided, free speech doesn’t just mean criticizing the president without “fear of being carted off to a concentration camp.” (Which, btw, is EXTREMELY offensive to Jewish and queer people who were, you know, actually SENT to the concentration camps - and didn’t even get to criticize Hitler. To compare a high school kid’s failure to stand for the Pledge with the murder of millions of people is beyond the pale.) It means you have the right to say just about anything - or NOT say something - as long as it doesn’t put others in jeopardy. The kid didn’t yell “Fire!” in the school. He just kept his seat.

But nice try for the “He’s unAmerican!” wedge. Too bad it’s much hullabaloo over nothing.

“I have seen no reference to anyone bashing our country”

Actually, Chris - quoting the above “While in line a couple IU moonbat trainees were complaining about how this country sucks and talking about countries that were better than the United States”

So there was bashing going on.

We all know opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.

And Bil, do I need to invoke Godwin’s Law on you?

I was referring to “political prisoners” and the term concentration camp came to mind. Must be the German in me These exist to this day in some parts of the world. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe (nee Rhodesia) utilizes them upon opponents, after he tears down their houses and businesses. The Apartheid regime in South Africa had them. I’m sure Cuba and China have them. Luckily we do live in a country where we can praise and criticize our leaders and express our opinions without too much fear of retribution. Except perhaps from some bloggers and the ACLU.

As long as nobody gets strapped to a chair and Eric Cartman injects himself with apple juice.

Yes, I am listening/reading Mike (Google Reader comes in handy at times).

Frankly, I could care less whether some kid stands up for the “Pledge” or anything else, for that matter. We live in a country that encourages it’s citizens to freely express themselves.

Surely, you aren’t suggesting that this kid (or anyone else, for that matter) should be required to stand for anyone’s version of a pledge to anything?

Let the kid refuse to stand up or pledge allegiance. That’s the beautiful thing about the country. If he wants to hang with the communists and other radicals, have at it. As long as he isn’t hurting me and is acting as a negative example — all radical protesters are an advertisement against themselves for the most part — let him keep up the foolishness.

I remember growing up in Bloomington — I attended Bloomington South and IUB — and saying things like that because it seemed like the cool thing to say. Of course, I was glad my parents were working for money so that I could have the luxury of thinking about those types of things.

I bet the kids at the fast food place were just “going with the flow” and spouting what they’ve heard a million times because no self-respecting Bloomingtonian would support a “meat-murdering evil corporation” joint when there is a food coop, food pantry, hemp sandwich boutique or some other place to get some locally harvested food that doesn’t enrich the evil capitalist pigs who are standing in the way of the “revolution.”

If they were really down with it, they’d go dumpster diving in the “Freegan” tradition and recycle discarded food from restaurants and grocery stores. It’s the ultimate protest against the man, short of living off of the grid somewhere in the Hoosier National Forest in a tree that might be threatened by a diabolical logger.

My parents are in Bloomington, so it’s always fun to go back home and visit. It’s also not the real world, so that makes it even more fun.

If I was still living in Bloomington, I’d probably be spouting off about how McDonalds ruined Kirkwood or how we need to tax the rich until they move out of the country to some place with lower taxes.

It’s always easier to complain about the evil American system when you’re not working, have no possessions and have all the bills paid for by mom and dad.

Exactly right, Josh.

Hi Chris D,

I’m basing my presumption on the fact that I’ve never heard anyone in this area compare and contrast whether it would be better to live in Spain, France or the Netherlands than in the United States. That seems to be something that is confined to people with the means that make them comfortable enough to even consider those types of daydreams.

It would be interesting to conduct a poll of IU-B students asking them that question and their financial status, then ask the poll of students at IUN and Purdue Cal. I hypothesize that the answers of the IU-B students would be greatly different than those of the IUN and Purdue Cal students.

I might be basing my presumption on the fact that I see a lot of middle class folks driving their cars and work trucks to the mills and other workplaces sporting American flags and “God Bless America” bumper stickers right next to their union local and “vote union” stickers.

Of course, maybe it is patriotic to daydream about how ones life might be made better by hoping on a plane and living in Amsterdam, Mallorca or the Cote d’Azur.