I repeat my earlier comment. We work with different assumptions. Since I actually believe that the Bible (as we have it today) is from God, then when I read it saying something (like attributing itself to God) then I believe it. Since you do not share that belief, you feel free to cut out the parts that disagree with your position. Then you have the audacity to accuse others who believe differently as being “guilty of malpractice”.

Please go away with your swill.

This is not only false, it is medically impossible. Those who abstain from intercourse cannot get pregnant apart from divine intervention.

There’s a difference between golf practice and getting around the course in 18 strikes, Scott. Of all the common means of birth control, abstinence has the highest failure rate.

And obviously Bristol found that choosing to not have sex before marriage doesn’t work.

Except that Bristol Palin did have sex before marriage.

Exactly my point. Her choice failed her. If she’d used the pill or rubbers or a diaphragm or an IUD, she probably wouldn’t be pregnant.

But when 2 Tim says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness” the claim is that God was more than just casually involved in “All Scripture”. There can be discussion as to what is being referred to as scripture

Even at the time of the Festal Epistle of Athanasius, the pastorals (Timothy and Titus) were understood to inauthentic, rather than being written by Paul. For one thing, they are written using a vocabulary that Paul didn’t use in the authentic letters. They were included because it was the clergy who established the canon, and Timothy and Titus provided guidance for an episcopal church structure.

Even if they had been written by Paul, you might want to take his writing with a grain of salt. He was not a friend of Christ, and in fact, his family business was defense contracting, selling tents to the enemy - the Romans who had conquered Israel. Paul was repeatedly called back to Jerusalem by the early Christian church and punished for teaching things that were untrue - the punishment for blasphemy was 39 strokes, just one stroke short of the punishment of death.

Jesus, by the way, seemed to have a larger view of “the commandments” than just the 10.

Yes. He was an Essene. He kept Kosher. He did not round his face, and we did not wear clothing of mixed fabrics.

Are you aware that a hassidic jew does not touch his wife during her period? In fact, at the dinner table, she cannot even pass him the bowl of mashed potatoes. She has to set it down on the table before he picks it up, so that they cannot both be holding the same bowl at the same time.

Those are commandments, but they are not god-given. It’s like the Amish Ordnung. It’s not a sin for a hassidic jew to touch his wife when she is ritually unclean, nor a sin for him to eat a pork chop, and it’s not a sin for an Amish man to own a tractor instead of a horse, or to wear a moustache.

If a hassidic jew were to accidently touch his wife, he wouldn’t pray to God for forgiveness, because it is not a sin. Similarly, Amish feel free to change their Ordnung from community to community and from year to year, because it’s not divine ordinance.

God defines sin. Adultery is a sin; fornication is not.

sometimes it’s better to close your mouth and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.

Your joke would work better if you told it right. It’s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought DUMB than to open it and remove all doubt. That’s a play on the multiple meanings of the word “dumb”, which is a synonym for “mute” as well as meaning “stupid.”

Sometimes insults say more about the person issuing the insult than the person being insulted.

This is not only false, it is medically impossible. Those who abstain from intercourse cannot get pregnant apart from divine intervention. In human history, that has only happened once. Attempting to practice abstinence and actually practicing abstinence are two very different things.

And obviously Bristol found that choosing to not have sex before marriage doesn’t work.

Except that Bristol Palin did have sex before marriage.

But when 2 Tim says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness” the claim is that God was more than just casually involved in “All Scripture”. There can be discussion as to what is being referred to as scripture, but the statement about God only writing the 10 commandments is misleading. If your preacher is telling you something else, he’s guilty of malpractice.

Jesus, by the way, seemed to have a larger view of “the commandments” than just the 10.

For instance, you assert the torah is all law. Torah has multiple meanings, one of which means the whole body of Jewish law and teachings, but I assume you mean the pentateuch, which Jews call the tanakh. Most jews consider Bereishith to be fable, Shemoth and Bamidbar to be history, while Vayiqra is civil law of the ancient Hibaru nation, and Devarim is a second book of their civil law.

Jesus said “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Which means that Deuteronomy 21:11, which specifically approves of premarital sex, would be valid.

God’s commands extend beyond Exodus 20.

Of course. There are two versions of the Commandments in the Bible. The “Mount Sinai” version of the Commandments is at Exodus 19:23 and the “Horeb” version is at Deuteronomy 5:2.

According to the Bible, God wrote the Commandments and nothing else. If your preacher is telling you something else, he’s guilty of malpractice.

So the woman is to be killed because her father lied? Hummm. I don’t think that passes the smell test.

So the real issue here is that you are selecting down what is scripture. I.e. it doesn’t agree with my concept of what scripture is so give me a knife and I’ll cut it out.

My point (that you never seem to get) is that, at least the Jews, see the Torah (which includes Deuteronomy) as God’s law. God’s commands extend beyond Exodus 20.

Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on this any more than anything else. But let’s agree that your interpretation that part of the Torah is not from God is not shared by MANY people. Let’s also agree that many believe that Jesus spoke for God and he was fairly clear on the issue.