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	<title>Comments on: Another Caucus, Another Establishment Defeat</title>
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	<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/</link>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14174</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 04:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14174</guid>
		<description>I think that you&#039;re misunderstanding the recruiting process. Recruitment should not be predicated upon getting someone to run and then having to clear the field or beat a path for them. A good candidate should be able to clear the field or beat their own path without the party&#039;s help.

A candidate that won&#039;t run without you clearing the field for them is a candidate that probably shouldn&#039;t be running at all, since they&#039;ll probably want you to do all of the work for them come November.

If they cannot do that within their own party--working the delegates to a convention or the PCs in a caucus or the voters in a primary--how do you expect them to do it with a much larger voter pool come November?

We&#039;re a party that believes in the benefit of free markets and competition. That should also apply things like caucuses, conventions, and primaries.

Let a thousand flowers bloom. Let the strongest survive, because the competition will make them stronger. And they shouldn&#039;t need crutches or training wheels or strong-arms to get across such a minor early finish line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you&#8217;re misunderstanding the recruiting process. Recruitment should not be predicated upon getting someone to run and then having to clear the field or beat a path for them. A good candidate should be able to clear the field or beat their own path without the party&#8217;s help.</p>
<p>A candidate that won&#8217;t run without you clearing the field for them is a candidate that probably shouldn&#8217;t be running at all, since they&#8217;ll probably want you to do all of the work for them come November.</p>
<p>If they cannot do that within their own party&#8211;working the delegates to a convention or the PCs in a caucus or the voters in a primary&#8211;how do you expect them to do it with a much larger voter pool come November?</p>
<p>We&#8217;re a party that believes in the benefit of free markets and competition. That should also apply things like caucuses, conventions, and primaries.</p>
<p>Let a thousand flowers bloom. Let the strongest survive, because the competition will make them stronger. And they shouldn&#8217;t need crutches or training wheels or strong-arms to get across such a minor early finish line.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Harris</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14130</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14130</guid>
		<description>The implication of your answer to #2 is that they should have recruited Vaughn to run and the do nothing to support him through the process. I think that hamstrings the ability of the party from being able to recruit good candidates. You are then saying, &quot;please run, and if you win we&#039;ll help you out!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The implication of your answer to #2 is that they should have recruited Vaughn to run and the do nothing to support him through the process. I think that hamstrings the ability of the party from being able to recruit good candidates. You are then saying, &#8220;please run, and if you win we&#8217;ll help you out!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jezierski</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14127</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jezierski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14127</guid>
		<description>Joel -

1. Yes.
2. Recruit - yes. Getting candidates elected AFTER the primaries are held. NOT BEFORE! Primaries (and caucuses) are for the rank-and-file Republicans (and Democrats for the other side of the room) to choose the candidate they feel has the best opportunity to win against the other parties in the general election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel -</p>
<p>1. Yes.<br />
2. Recruit &#8211; yes. Getting candidates elected AFTER the primaries are held. NOT BEFORE! Primaries (and caucuses) are for the rank-and-file Republicans (and Democrats for the other side of the room) to choose the candidate they feel has the best opportunity to win against the other parties in the general election.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Harris</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14122</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14122</guid>
		<description>Michael, just what IS the purpose of the Party organization, then?

I would argue that it has two primary purposes:
1. Raise money (in order to)
2. Recruit and get candidates elected</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, just what IS the purpose of the Party organization, then?</p>
<p>I would argue that it has two primary purposes:<br />
1. Raise money (in order to)<br />
2. Recruit and get candidates elected</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jezierski</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14118</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jezierski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14118</guid>
		<description>Joel - 

&quot;I consider it RESPONSIBLE for the party organization to look for a candidate that they like and then promote that person.&quot;

I disagree. Party organizations like the central committee should butt out. That&#039;s out of the &quot;smoky backroom&quot; days.

When there is a threat of ... ok let me rephrase ... an air of a threat of reprisal over how a vote will go that&#039;s not democracy - that&#039;s something right out of Robert Mugabe&#039;s Zimbabwe. Now some of this could be still feelings leftover from the &#039;08 convention. From where I sit, there seems to be this feeling of distrust between township rank-and-file GOPers and the Downtown crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel &#8211; </p>
<p>&#8220;I consider it RESPONSIBLE for the party organization to look for a candidate that they like and then promote that person.&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree. Party organizations like the central committee should butt out. That&#8217;s out of the &#8220;smoky backroom&#8221; days.</p>
<p>When there is a threat of &#8230; ok let me rephrase &#8230; an air of a threat of reprisal over how a vote will go that&#8217;s not democracy &#8211; that&#8217;s something right out of Robert Mugabe&#8217;s Zimbabwe. Now some of this could be still feelings leftover from the &#8216;08 convention. From where I sit, there seems to be this feeling of distrust between township rank-and-file GOPers and the Downtown crowd.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Harris</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14101</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14101</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, I talked with Scott&#039;s Dad who had the vote estimated within 2 votes of each candidate before the first round.

From my point of view, there is nothing wrong with the &#039;overly obnoxious salesman&#039; except for the fact that it doesn&#039;t work. If that is as far as the &quot;arm twisting&quot; went, then there is a lot of overblown rants going on.

I consider it RESPONSIBLE for the party organization to look for a candidate that they like and then promote that person. They should use good tactics--which is sounds like they didn&#039;t. They should choose the best candidate that they can. I didn&#039;t think they did--though I could have lived with Vaughn.

Also, I consider it RESPONSIBLE for a Party Chairman to try as hard as he can to fill PC positions. And just like in business, when you choose someone to work for you, you like for them to think as much like you as possible.

I agree with Josh in his above post--it seemed to me like it was well-run. People generally had a good time. I didn&#039;t see any angry people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly, I talked with Scott&#8217;s Dad who had the vote estimated within 2 votes of each candidate before the first round.</p>
<p>From my point of view, there is nothing wrong with the &#8216;overly obnoxious salesman&#8217; except for the fact that it doesn&#8217;t work. If that is as far as the &#8220;arm twisting&#8221; went, then there is a lot of overblown rants going on.</p>
<p>I consider it RESPONSIBLE for the party organization to look for a candidate that they like and then promote that person. They should use good tactics&#8211;which is sounds like they didn&#8217;t. They should choose the best candidate that they can. I didn&#8217;t think they did&#8211;though I could have lived with Vaughn.</p>
<p>Also, I consider it RESPONSIBLE for a Party Chairman to try as hard as he can to fill PC positions. And just like in business, when you choose someone to work for you, you like for them to think as much like you as possible.</p>
<p>I agree with Josh in his above post&#8211;it seemed to me like it was well-run. People generally had a good time. I didn&#8217;t see any angry people.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny B</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14059</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14059</guid>
		<description>Joel, I&#039;m sorry, but there was definitely arm twisting. It may have taken the form of &#039;the overly obnoxious salesman&#039;, but it was present for the last two months at anything party related. The party probably wonders why they were so far off in their tally (the looks on their faces after the first round of votes was that they were completely stunned). It is because they were arm twisting, being too pushy, being downright obnoxious and it bordered on threatening... this is why people lied to them about who they were going to vote for... because they felt threatened. I&#039;m pretty sure that thought is a consensus across the board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel, I&#8217;m sorry, but there was definitely arm twisting. It may have taken the form of &#8216;the overly obnoxious salesman&#8217;, but it was present for the last two months at anything party related. The party probably wonders why they were so far off in their tally (the looks on their faces after the first round of votes was that they were completely stunned). It is because they were arm twisting, being too pushy, being downright obnoxious and it bordered on threatening&#8230; this is why people lied to them about who they were going to vote for&#8230; because they felt threatened. I&#8217;m pretty sure that thought is a consensus across the board.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14039</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14039</guid>
		<description>You can have multiple machines without having multiple check-in points divided on the basis of region. The time saved in terms of the voting is insignificant compared to the information they got on who voted how from each area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can have multiple machines without having multiple check-in points divided on the basis of region. The time saved in terms of the voting is insignificant compared to the information they got on who voted how from each area.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Harris</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14038</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14038</guid>
		<description>By the way, I would argue that the 3 voting locations was to actually make the voting process take less time. Maybe that makes me too simple minded. But it seemed to do the trick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I would argue that the 3 voting locations was to actually make the voting process take less time. Maybe that makes me too simple minded. But it seemed to do the trick.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Harris</title>
		<link>http://hoosieraccess.com/blog/2009/07/21/another-caucus-another-establishment-defeat/comment-page-1/#comment-14037</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hoosieraccess.com/?p=4113#comment-14037</guid>
		<description>Paul,

I can only relate what I saw. Yes, there was a lot of Marion Co Party support for Vaughn. A whole lot. The Ballard letter was a part of that support. I am sure that Tom John wanted his appointed PCs to support Vaughn--they may have even been appointed to do so. Personally, I do not hold it against a Party organization to support a candidate. This would all be moot if motivated party folk would run for PC positions, preventing the County Chair from having the slots to appoint.

But there is a huge difference between support and &quot;rigging&quot;. I saw no evidence of arm twisting. I heard no threats. I didn&#039;t see anyone pulled into dark corners. If someone saw or heard something that indicated that these activities were going on, then I would be willing to listen. But I did not see or hear anything.

I think arguing that having three polling locations making it easier to hold PC&#039;s accountable is somewhat laughable. With 45, 30, and 24 PCs voting on paper ballots in each of the 3 locations, how do you really know who voted for whom without individual PC&#039;s fessing up to it? I suppose they could hold Ward chairmen &quot;accountable&quot;.

On an area of common ground, I agree that Schneider did not need to get &quot;better known&quot;. First, most folk knew him fairly well before this race. Second, Scott spent a lot of phone time talking with PCs. He contacted me 4 times in addition to talking with him briefly at an event. This seemed to be his MO with all the PCs--at least those that he thought were in play.

The whole event was fun. There did not seem to be any hurt feelings in the room. There was clearly disappointment, but no rancor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>I can only relate what I saw. Yes, there was a lot of Marion Co Party support for Vaughn. A whole lot. The Ballard letter was a part of that support. I am sure that Tom John wanted his appointed PCs to support Vaughn&#8211;they may have even been appointed to do so. Personally, I do not hold it against a Party organization to support a candidate. This would all be moot if motivated party folk would run for PC positions, preventing the County Chair from having the slots to appoint.</p>
<p>But there is a huge difference between support and &#8220;rigging&#8221;. I saw no evidence of arm twisting. I heard no threats. I didn&#8217;t see anyone pulled into dark corners. If someone saw or heard something that indicated that these activities were going on, then I would be willing to listen. But I did not see or hear anything.</p>
<p>I think arguing that having three polling locations making it easier to hold PC&#8217;s accountable is somewhat laughable. With 45, 30, and 24 PCs voting on paper ballots in each of the 3 locations, how do you really know who voted for whom without individual PC&#8217;s fessing up to it? I suppose they could hold Ward chairmen &#8220;accountable&#8221;.</p>
<p>On an area of common ground, I agree that Schneider did not need to get &#8220;better known&#8221;. First, most folk knew him fairly well before this race. Second, Scott spent a lot of phone time talking with PCs. He contacted me 4 times in addition to talking with him briefly at an event. This seemed to be his MO with all the PCs&#8211;at least those that he thought were in play.</p>
<p>The whole event was fun. There did not seem to be any hurt feelings in the room. There was clearly disappointment, but no rancor.</p>
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